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ChCh's choice The sky's the limit

#1 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 08:35


MPs, EBU Online tournament.

ChCh has been reading the new EBU SkyBlue Book with interest, in particular trying to find a way to use his doctorate in sharp practice. He found a suitable ruse on the hand above, which was all the more satisfying as it was against the Secretary Bird, West. It was the second board of a two-board round in the weekly North London pairs and the latter opened a very thin 2H, and North. Molly the Mule, doubled. She always doubled with an opening bid and at least three cards in the other three suits and she was not going to stop now. RR, East, raised to 3H and ChCh, South, closed the auction with a jump to Four Spades.

SB thought that a heart lead might help the declarer so chose the seven of clubs. RR thought this might be a doubleton, so played AK and another, won by ChCh in dummy. Trumps were drawn in three rounds, West pitching the last club and two hearts, and now ChCh made the very unusual play of cashing both remaining spades ending in dummy before finessing the queen of hearts. This held, and ChCh went into the tank for so long that the round was called with four cards remaining. SB was surprised to see that he was awarded a very bad score on the board, less than 20%. Most NS's had a free run to 4S by North, on the start of three rounds of clubs, and all played the standard good practice of drawing trumps and playing the ace and queen of hearts end-playing whoever had the king of hearts. SB asked ChCh by message why he had not chosen this line, especially in view of his weak 2H.

ChCh replied. "Why should I?" The new Sky Blue Book says: "If there are only at most four tricks remaining, the platform will assign a result based on the double-dummy outcome from the point where play was curtailed."

So, if the heart finesse lost, I would still make the contract by "timing out" the hand. If the heart finesse won, I would make an overtrick by similar means. It was, you might say, "a no-cost practice finesse".

SB was for once lost for words, and his only regret was that he had not spotted the loophole first. He called the TD, who responded that his hands were tied by the Sky-Blue Book, which states: "If there are more than a few tricks to be played, the TD will assign a score based on the auction and play that occurred." When there are four or fewer cards remaining, as is the case here, the software assigns the score, not the TD.

How do you rule?
No, I meant exactly what I wrote; I believe BBO's claiming algorithm is about as perfect as it can get. It's basically the only aspect of GIB that I find faultless. - smerriman
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#2 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 11:23

The platform will assign a result. That doesn't mean that that result is final.

The TD will assign a score based on the [...] play that occurred. Especially if they play timeout games (and trust me, from the tournaments I've played in in the last couple of weeks, the TD will know about the timeout game. Even when the delay is caused by "I asked a question, I need the response", "Director, he's not playing, we're going to time out" "TD: please answer the question" "it's been 3 minutes") the TD will assign a score. It may even be different from the one assigned by double dummy, if the TD is at all competent.

Now, I wish the software would allow me to assign the result I want, which is weighted and carries a PP along with.

But I think no matter what gets assigned on this hand, the ruling should include "any more of these games, sonny me lad, and you're out. And that applies to you, as well; I got my eye on you."
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#3 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 11:44

Note that I don't think BBO complies with that clause of the Sky Blue Book. I believe we assign the result by having robots play the rest of the tricks, but they play single dummy, not double dummy.

I'm not even sure what that clause means. There are many possible double dummy outcomes, do they mean the optimal result for declarer?

#4 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 14:02

View Postlamford, on 2020-June-01, 08:35, said:

ChCh replied. "Why should I?" The new Sky Blue Book says: "If there are only at most four tricks remaining, the platform will assign a result based on the double-dummy outcome from the point where play was curtailed."


It's a valid point, but aren't there five tricks remaining?
And what happened to your pre-covid resolution to assign recognisable names in the diagram? :)
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#5 User is offline   KingCovert 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 14:34

There are only 4 tricks remaining. There's one heart and 3 diamonds remaining. Clubs and Spades have been emptied, and the Q was won.
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#6 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2020-June-01, 19:49

View Postbarmar, on 2020-June-01, 11:44, said:

There are many possible double dummy outcomes, do they mean the optimal result for declarer?

I suggest you look up double-dummy in a bridge dictionary, as it seems you are not familiar with the term.
No, I meant exactly what I wrote; I believe BBO's claiming algorithm is about as perfect as it can get. It's basically the only aspect of GIB that I find faultless. - smerriman
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#7 User is offline   sanst 

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Posted 2020-June-02, 01:38

If SB had been sitting S and ChCh had bid 2 as W, he would have called the TD complaining about this bid on this hand. :D
Anyway, another example why I don抰 think online bridge is a fit alternative for the real game. ChCh would, given the description of his character, use a phone connection to communicate with his partner.
Joost
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-June-02, 02:50

View Postbarmar, on 2020-June-01, 11:44, said:

Note that I don't think BBO complies with that clause of the Sky Blue Book. I believe we assign the result by having robots play the rest of the tricks, but they play single dummy, not double dummy.

I'm not even sure what that clause means. There are many possible double dummy outcomes, do they mean the optimal result for declarer?


All players playing optimally knowing where the cards are.
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#9 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2020-June-02, 04:37

View Postsanst, on 2020-June-02, 01:38, said:

If SB had been sitting S and ChCh had bid 2 as W, he would have called the TD complaining about this bid on this hand. :D
Anyway, another example why I don’t think online bridge is a fit alternative for the real game. ChCh would, given the description of his character, use a phone connection to communicate with his partner.

He uses the new What's App facility with messages being deleted automatically ten seconds after they are read, and he denied his conversation (with SB) ever took place, of course. The OP is what your scribe thinks happened.
No, I meant exactly what I wrote; I believe BBO's claiming algorithm is about as perfect as it can get. It's basically the only aspect of GIB that I find faultless. - smerriman
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#10 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2020-June-02, 08:01

View PostCyberyeti, on 2020-June-02, 02:50, said:

All players playing optimally knowing where the cards are.


That's what I meant; but if that's not what happens the text can be changed.
Robin

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#11 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-June-02, 13:31

View PostKingCovert, on 2020-June-01, 14:34, said:

There are only 4 tricks remaining. There's one heart and 3 diamonds remaining. Clubs and Spades have been emptied, and the Q was won.

I miscounted, sorry.


View Postlamford, on 2020-June-02, 04:37, said:

He uses the new What's App facility with messages being deleted automatically ten seconds after they are read, and he denied his conversation (with SB) ever took place, of course.

The last I heard it was to be one hour?
FWIW, after directing and scrutinising 3 months of online club tournaments I haven't had the slightest suspicion of collusive cheating over the phone/internet. Although if it were to become the normal way of playing bridge I imagine cheating would settle down to its usual level in any competition, around 6% of participants in my experience of many sports.
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#12 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2020-June-05, 10:44

I rule by reading and applying the next paragraph in the SBB

It is possible for slow play to result in an advantage for one side; for example, if declarer can
avoid taking a two-way guess until the last four tricks and the round ends before the board is
finished, the assigned double-dummy outcome will be the outcome where declarer always
慻uesses right?

If the side that was responsible for slow play gains an advantage in this manner, the TD can
assign an adjusted score
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#13 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2020-June-06, 18:29

View PostFrancesHinden, on 2020-June-05, 10:44, said:

I rule by reading and applying the next paragraph in the SBB

It is possible for slow play to result in an advantage for one side; for example, if declarer can
avoid taking a two-way guess until the last four tricks and the round ends before the board is
finished, the assigned double-dummy outcome will be the outcome where declarer always
‘guesses right’.

If the side that was responsible for slow play gains an advantage in this manner, the TD can
assign an adjusted score

I don't recall that paragraph being present in the version I originally downloaded. If it was added since, then it is an excellent addition; if it was part of the original, then I missed it, and nobody on here noticed it either. Of course ChCh will only employ the ruse when the opponents have had, for example, a slow auction or slow defence on the previous board, so that his side will not be responsible for the slow play.
No, I meant exactly what I wrote; I believe BBO's claiming algorithm is about as perfect as it can get. It's basically the only aspect of GIB that I find faultless. - smerriman
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#14 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2020-June-10, 07:14

It's been in there all along.
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